Owning Your Own Business While Protecting Your Health With Sarah Berthon

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Sarah Berthon

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Live Your Life, Not Your Diagnosis. I'm your host, Andrea Hanson. Before we start, I have to let you know about a podcast that I was just on. Ali Flynn was kind enough to have me on as a guest on her amazing international podcast called Challenges That Change Us. So
when you're done here, hop on over and give that episode a listen. I talk about my story, how we have to take control of our own mindset. And my fateful encounter with somebody who I call the MS Welcome Wagon. It was so much fun. Ali is a friend and we laugh a lot. It's kind of the best conversation and her podcast is amazing. So while you're over
Listen to all the other ones as well. She's fantastic.
But this Over here at live your life, not your diagnosis. We have a great episode with Sarah Berthon. She's the founder and CEO of Excel against the odds. A business that she created to help other business owners living with a chronic illness.
She herself is living with multiple chronic illnesses and has a really inspiring story about how she did it. Starting our own business. It's something that many of us have If not at least thought of. We have a chronic illness. We can't really work on someone else's schedule or piece. Because we just don't have that same energy as we did before. So it just makes sense. Look, we're smart. Right. We have a great work ethic. We know how to get things done.
We open up our business. And then. Maybe it's not going exactly the way you thought it would. Maybe it turns out that we're not saving the energy that we thought we would. Or we find out that we run our own businesses the same way as all of those other bosses. And did that. We tried to get away from.
Well, this podcast has the answer for you.
Sarah Berthon works with people with a chronic illness that have all kinds of businesses and she helps them structure it in a way. That helps them do everything they dreamed it would. But being successful on their own terms. So please enjoy this week's episode and visit Andrea Hanson coaching.com for more on Sarah Berthon. Resources that we've talked about in the show and transcripts from today's episode. Welcome to the live your life, not your diagnosis podcast. I'm Andrea Hanson, author, motivational speaker. And master certified coach. When I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I was told. I would never reach my goals. But I did. And I'm on a mission to prove that life with a chronic illness can still be expansive and quite remarkable.
Everyone has their own unique path. I'm talking to people, living with a chronic illness that come from different backgrounds, have different points of view and are achieving amazing life goals of all kinds. To you inspire you To achieve what you thought was impossible. These stories are raw. Uncensored and judgment free. Listener discretion is advised
[00:03:02] Andrea: I'm here this week with Sarah Berthon. Sarah Berthon is the founder and CEO of Excel against the odds having set up and run a natural skincare business while living with several chronic illnesses, pots, ELs Danlos, me and chronic migraine. She quickly realized that she needed to put strategies in place to look after her health.
While working on the business, she realized that there was a need for others to learn the same techniques and set up Excel against the odds to help other business owners with chronic illness protect their. She offers one-to-one mentoring and workshops, plus a free Facebook group entrepreneurs against the odds.
These techniques and strategies are useful for anyone who runs a business and wants to look after their wellbeing. Sarah. Welcome.
[00:03:49] Sarah: Hey Andrea, thank you so much for having me on your show.
[00:03:52] Andrea: I'm so glad. I'm so glad that we got this started. We've had quite a morning or you've had an evening. We had technical different difficulties, so I really appreciate you hanging in there.
I love that you're on here talking about owning a business while you have a chronic illness, I myself own my business and have a chronic illness. So I know what it's like. It's almost like you have two jobs. And one thing that I remember being really surprised about when I started my business, , 10 plus years ago was how intertwined my health and my business were.
And not just from like, do you have enough energy or can you get enough done in the day? But there were so many other levels of how one thing affected the other.
[00:04:34] Sarah: Absolutely. It's they, they are so intertwined. How you feel on a day to day basis will affect your business and also how your business is going and how your working your business will affect your health.
So it's so important to take care of yourself when you're running a business, because otherwise either your business or your health will suffer.
[00:04:51] Andrea: Right. And I think that's interesting that, , we all think about, okay, if my health is not going well or something's happening, , we all know what it's like to have a really bad day where maybe you can get one thing done.
Maybe, maybe you can get two and that's about it. And obviously that's going to affect your business. But when your business isn't going well, having that affecting your health is a really interesting thing.
[00:05:16] Sarah: Yes, it is. I think because a lot of it is if, if, if you can run your business in a way that works for your health, it won't impact it so much.
But if you're running your business where you've got lots of tight deadlines and you're pushing yourself past your energy levels, then it's really going to have an impact on your health. And that's why I try and encourage people to avoid that situation. Because if you can run your business in a way that it doesn't have that impact.
It will really benefit you. And then that will then really benefit your business as well, because you want to get into a cycle of making, having issues with your health and then picking yourself up and then having issues with your health. If you can try and keep it reasonably stable, that will be really positive for your health and your business.
[00:05:56] Andrea: And, and that's one of those interesting things, like when you're first starting out with your business, it's almost like you don't know, like there's so many things, just, , take the health out of it. When a lot of times the people that I know that have started their business, they're not just doing it outta the gate.
Like they've probably been in corporate for a little bit. They've done something else for a little bit. And then they realize that they want to own their business. And it is such a shift like running your business is so different than working in somebody else's business. So it's really hard to know like, okay, what can I do?
Like how much time does it take me to do something.
[00:06:35] Sarah: Oh, absolutely. Cause you, you run, you wear so many hats when you run your own business. When, when you work in corporates, you do one job and, and you're in charge of that job and you do it and you do it well, but it inside and out when you're running a business, you are, you are your financial director, your HR manager, you are products manager, you do every single aspect of a business and it's a lot to take on and you don't know what bits are more important than other bits.
Often it feels like everything is important. So you try and do everything. And it's trying to understand what are the most important tasks is what really is key. So you don't get bogged down in all those other tasks that are going to take all your energy and not give you the benefit that you.
[00:07:15] Andrea: One thing I was caught off guard by was understanding like, okay, what can I do? That's really quick? And what do I do that takes a long time? Maybe it's because I'm learning something for the first time. Or I feel like I'm always reinventing the wheel whenever I do it. Like in something with just for example, like something like technology might really bog you down and it might be like, oh, I had no idea that it was going to take this much time.
And then you can find your, , zone of genius. So to speak where it's like, oh, I'm really good at marketing on social media. Or I'm really good at talking to people in networking events and things like that. So it's like this learning curve, I guess, on running a business is very, very steep.
[00:08:00] Sarah: It really is.
And I, something I take my clients through is sort of understanding. So doing like a task analysis, understanding what tasks they love doing, what tasks they're really good at. And then looking also at which ones really drain them of energy and which ones they, they take a long time doing. And then it's worth understanding whether they need to do those more difficult tasks or tasks they don't enjoy.
And if they do still need to do them, whether they can delegate them or give them to somebody, maybe outsource them as an option. Because otherwise you can't really focus the energy on the things that you really want to do is if you've got the opportunity to really focus on stuff that you are good at, that doesn't take up too much of your energy and that you love doing, that's really going to make your business flourish.
Whereas if all, all your energy is going on, those really difficult tasks, then it's going to destroy you of energy and you won't be able to have given that and the stuff that you really love doing.
[00:08:49] Andrea: , that's always a bmer when you, you get to what it is that you really love doing, and then you have like half energy to actually such a shame.
. I might be talking from experience definitely, let's talk more about your story a little bit. You've got quite a few diagnoses. Were some of them diagnoses that you were born with?
[00:09:13] Sarah: , so, Ella's down loss is a genetic condition. But I only got diagnosed about five years ago with that. , Having been told when I was a child that I, I had had growing pains and I, as I got older, it was very much put down to stress and working too hard and all those sorts of things.
So, it was only when I got diagnosed with pots, that there was then the link to Ella's Dan loss. And I found out that, that I had always had that. And that explains a lot of the pains that I had as a child. . So, yes. So , it's, it took a long, long time to get diagnosed with any of these things.
And it's been a bit, bit of a shame really it's taken so long.
[00:09:49] Andrea: . , I think, I think you're right. It it's, unfortunately, it's pretty common that it can take a while to get diagnosed. So tell me, what were you doing before you were diagnosed as far as working or career or anything?
[00:10:05] Sarah: , so I had a corporate career before I was a management consultant working in it and I would travel pretty much around the world working with large organizations, implementing it systems and I loved it.
But I gradually found that I was really struggling with energy and I got to the point where all I could do was work and sleep. There was nothing in between. And eventually got to the point where even getting to work was became an issue. And as a result of that, I, I lost my job and lost my career.
Cause I realized I could never return. Once I lost the job, I could never return to that career. Again, it just was taking too much out of me, the traveling and everything else. And I still hadn't been diagnosed at that point. So it was still quite a long journey to working out what was going on. So I did get another job in it, but it wasn't the career that I had before.
And I'd say for about 10 years, I kind of lost my ambition and I had my family and had my job, but, but it wasn't really what I felt like I was meant to be doing. And so eventually I started getting a bit of ambition back and that's when I started looking into opening my own business and , It's really exciting.
[00:11:11] Andrea: Talk about that. How did you slowly get your ambition back? Because I think a lot of people can really resonate with that because even if we're not necessarily diagnosed, we know something's going on. It's not like our body holds off doing things until we're actually diagnosed. We start feeling it. And we start knowing that we have to either slow down or just change things up and it really can knock the wind out of you.
, I know for me there was a lot, it was almost like a, a confidence crisis because I wasn't, , this go getter or I wasn't able to be the go-getter that I was before. So how did you slowly get that ambition back?
[00:11:57] Sarah: When I lost my job, it felt like it was a real blow for me. And I really lost all my identity as well.
I think I had a quite lot of my identity tied up in my career. And so. I think taking myself away from that. Like trying to find other ways of having my identity so more around my values and my morals and things like that really helped. So I wasn't think putting all my focus on what I did, it was more like who I am and that's how I sort of worked on my identity.
And I think doing that really helped because then it gave me some freedom to, to do what I wanted to do rather than what I felt that I had to do. And. I, I started learning how to make my own skincare. Cause it's something I was just interested in. It was a hobby rather than a business idea. And I was my daughter was really interested in what I was doing.
So I made up like little kits for making bath bombs and lip BALs. And she absolutely loved them. So that then developed into a business idea from there. It was never going to be business from the, from the get set. But once I found that there was something there, I started doing that and I started offering workshops as well, teaching people how to make their own skincare mm-hmm
, but I did it all wrong in that. I made myself really ill . I managed to , I was doing my first Christmas fair. It was a really big, fair. And I already had a frozen shoulder. Just because I have, I get lots of things like that. And the day before the fair I was overdoing it completely, it was a lot of repetitive movements and I managed to give myself another frozen shoulder.
So both it was more of a acute Veritis in that shoulder, but basically meant that I had two shoulders out of action and had to go to hospital and get checked out. Cause I just couldn't do it. So I ended up doing Christmas spare, but in a lot of pain, lots, lots of painkillers and swore to myself that I would never do that again.
So that's where I came up with working out how to run a business in a chronic and a friendly way. So I just didn't cause myself any mischief again.
it's, it's interesting. And I found the same thing with my, when I started my job. It like our, our work ethic is great, but our work habits, those don't. Just go away. when, when, even when like our identity is changing and we're like, okay, I can't have my identity in my job.
[00:13:59] Andrea: Like, even with all that work is happening, your work habits don't go away. And so when we find something new that really sparks that ambition again and gets our interest going, and we go into it, it's like you run right back into those old work habits and can just run yourself down pretty quickly. I think that's a pretty, , I did it I think it's pretty common.
[00:14:23] Sarah: Absolutely. . A lot of people I work with say exactly the same thing as you say, I think it is a lot of people have that, that strong work ethic and they, they give that all to, to everything that they do. And so it's very hard to stop that, to find when you have got a chronic illness, because you, if you love something you want to do your best.
[00:14:39] Andrea: Yes. Yes. And I think it's, it's, it's the idea like where we, we kind of conflate doing our best with hustling, like crazy. So, how do you help people? Or how did you, I guess at the time, how did you separate those two,
[00:14:57] Sarah: first of all, taking a step back and working out what my goals were. So looking at my business goals and also my lifestyle goals and realizing that I had to make them aligned that I needed to make sure that my business fitted in with my lifestyle and my wellbeing and my family as well.
And understanding that it's really important to prioritize yourself and your wellbeing. So with all my clients it's very much like a weekly thing of looking at what can you do this week for yourself? And putting that in a diary first, before you plan in any business meetings and that, that feels quite counterintuitive for business owners or even people working in corporate to, to put yourself first, but it has such a positive impact on your business if you take that time for yourself.
So even if. 10 minutes, reading a book or a 15 minute walk in nature. Those little things can really make a big difference to your wellbeing and they can have a really good, big impact on your business.
[00:15:50] Andrea: How do you help people step away from the business? Because I know going for a 15 minute walk is fantastic.
, for me, it's, , I, I do that and I have to, I don't want to say compartmentalize, cause I know that's a, that's not a great word, but it's like, you have to compartmentalize and like turn off that business brain, but that is easier said than done. So you can go for a walk in nature and then all you can do is be thinking about your strategies in business which is maybe not the same as taking you time
[00:16:23] Sarah: , , definitely.
It's it's trying to encourage that sort of mind walking as well. So I do talk a lot around sort of the mindfulness and the meditation side, but also. Just what, what brings you joy? So it could be listening to music. So if, if, if music is, is what lights you up, then listening to some music. When you go for your walk, or if it's looking at flowers or doing some art, it is trying to bring out what spending some time really looking at what you love doing and what it is that lights, lights, your fire, and too happiness.
And then implementing that into your daily life and making sure that that is at the top of your to-do list. So you have to take that off before you can do all the other stuff. And I think after we put it at the bottom of the to-do list and I'm really encouraging people to, to turn that around, put it into your diary plan your time.
I have a, a non-negotiable lunch hour where I sit down, have a proper lunch. And then I either, depending on how my energy levels are, I either have a 30 minute lie down or I go and read a book or I go out for a walk. So that is non-negotiable. I'm going to make sure that I do that cause otherwise I know that my business will really suffer in the afternoon.
[00:17:25] Andrea: I, I really love having business hours. And I find though that now that I've been now that I've been in business and let me tell you, this was not like my, my, my business journey, if you will, was not a straight line. right. There's upstairs down. There's like, oh my God, I screwed that up. And , , there's, there's all sorts of things that happen in a business.
I'm finding that it's really just recently that I feel comfortable saying like, okay, these are business hours. And if I get a email and it's after business hours, I am not going to reply. And I think part of that was, it took that long to decondition myself from that corporate life, , corporate life is like, you respond right now and you respond within 24 hours.
And if you don't do that, then it's not professional. And , there's a lot of that stuff. And so I feel like it's taken this long to really unwind, but I know when I first started off my business, That kind of thing was not so easy. So are there things that people can do when they're first starting out their business and they are maybe a little anxious about like, I have to get this going.
And so that means I have to be on top of things and I have to be available and I have to, , all the things .
[00:18:42] Sarah: I, I think there's a couple of things. The first one I think is to remember that it's your business and you, you make the rules now. You're not listening to the rules of your boss. It's these are your rules.
So you can run your business, how you want to. And it's really important to set boundaries. And if you make those boundaries clear to other people, then they will follow them. So for example, you can have an out of office on your email that automatically responds saying, what your time, what times you work and saying, I plan to get back to you within X nber of hours or days, whatever it is that you want to do.
But, but building in that. That understanding that you're not going to be replying straight away and again, on your phone and on your messenger, you can have those things saying, I, I, I, I work these hours. I, it does take me a while to respond, but I will get to you. I have received your message. Thank you very much.
I will respond in X nber X amount of time. And if you can make that clear at the beginning and yourself, you can start getting into those really nice patterns and realizing that it often it's coming from you rather than the client. It's you putting your pressure on yourself and it's not, it's not the client putting that pressure on you.
They're, they're very happy to wait two days for a response. It's just you who thinks I got, I've got to reply straight away. So it's fine. I'm understand that. Actually, if you don't do something, the world doesn't stop your business. Doesn't stop. It's just trying to keep that moment up, that putting too much pressure on yourself.
And then the other thing I would say is to really try and understand your energy levels. I had a client who was sitting at her desk at nine o'clock every morning, nine till five. Cause that's what she did. That's what she was. That's what society had led her to believe was what she had to do, but she had no energy at nine o'clock.
She just sat there, staring at her screen and really wasn't getting anything done. So explored her energy level. She kept a diary looking at, at her energy levels and realized that she didn't get her energy until about 11 o'clock, but at 11 o'clock, she had enough energy. So we changed it. So she wasn't sitting at her desk at nine o'clock.
She would do something for herself in the first two hours of the day. She'd go for a walk and really make the most of her time. And then she'd sit down at 11 o'clock and then she was raring to go because she hadn't spent the last two hours just staring at a screen and now feeling really tired. She actually had energy to get on and do the work.
So it's trying to really understand those energy levels and, and apply those to your business. And I know dunno about you, but when I'm trying to try to blog, it can take me 24 hours to do or two days to do. If I haven't got the right energy, but if I sit down and I've got the right energy, I can, I can do.
30 minutes an hour. It's just having the right energy to do those jobs and understanding what your energy levels are like.
[00:21:15] Andrea: . . One thing that I, I really had to understand was how much, like energy levels are one thing, but how, how much different things tax your energy levels. So for instance, going for a walk will tax your energy levels.
Like I thought that was, that was the main thing. Like working out, taking the dog out, all that kind of stuff. I thought the physical stuff was going to tax the energy level, but that's not for me at least. And I think for a lot of people, that's not what taxes at the most, for me sitting down and having what I call that focus time.
So if I'm writing or I am practicing, like right now, I've got a keynote coming up. And so I'm practicing my speech and I'm really in that. And that is just straight up focus time. That will drain me faster than going for a run. And a lot of times, if I can feel that I'm flagging on it and it's not really, it's not really gelling.
Actually stopping and, and walking away and doing something completely different to get the energy levels back up. I will come in and get just as much done, like you said, in like 30 minutes than what I was trying to do, which was going to take me two hours because I was, I was not up just enough, but it was the whole idea that, that mental energy, that focus mental energy that happens when you're running a business a lot that drains your energy so much faster,
[00:22:39] Sarah: I think really does.
I think it's trying to understand the impact that different tasks have on your energy levels. As you say, certain things will affect different people in different ways. It's trying to understand that and is difficult to, if you haven't got the right energy, you are going to take a lot longer to do it, but also it might not be up to the same level that you would expect if you had the right energy.
So often it is worth walking away. If you haven't got the right energy and coming back at another time and then finding that you actually get it done a lot quicker and it's to a much higher standard as well.
[00:23:11] Andrea: So much of this I think is trial and error, right? It's you just gotta figure out your own flow.
[00:23:18] Sarah: Absolutely. But it's worth keeping a journal of that as well. Or keeping some sort of note to understand how you are affected, if you can, if it can really pay attention to that and listen to your body as well. Listen to, what's trying to tell you then that can really have a big impact, positive impact.
[00:23:33] Andrea: This is something that I saw and I know, , like you said before, a lot of times it's not it's us that is putting the pressure on ourselves and it's not necessarily the clients, but I do know that something that comes up. Is the idea of keeping up with the Jones.
And a lot of times, for those of us who were diagnosed in adulthood, we used to be the Joneses right. And now we feel like we can't even keep up. And it's, it's more of that pressure, but it's coming specifically from the what are they going to say or what do they think about me? Or I've gotta keep up with them.
It's this whole idea of, of, , this outward pressure that we think is happening, how do you help people get through that specific worry that you're not up to snuff or you're not going fast enough or you're not keeping up with the Jones.
[00:24:22] Sarah: I think it's trying to understand that you are in your own lane.
A lot of the time we're comparing with people on social media that, but we're trying to keep up with them. But I think there's a few things to bear in mind. The first. What they're showing on social media isn't necessarily the truth. It's what they want the world to see. It's not showing behind the scenes.
Whereas when we look at ourselves, we are seeing all the bad stuff as well. People don't put the bad stuff on social media. They don't put the good stuff. So you're not comparing like with like, and then secondly, you have to remember, everybody is at a different point in their journey. They might have started their business earlier, or they might have help.
They might have somebody doing some of the tasks for them. You're not comparing like no two people are the same. You've all got different challenges. And it's really important to stay in your own lane and try not to compare it with others. It's, it's easier said than done. I know, but I think once you get into that, that rhythm of just looking and seeing how you are doing and thinking, actually, I know that they're doing this.
But I'm not, I'm not in competition with them. I'm in, I'm just trying to do my best. I don't need to compete with others and, and just really trying to keep to your lane and, and delivering the best that you can. And then you don't have to worry about other people. So I think, I think it's really try trying to, to get away from that mentality of, of competition.
And, and even maybe looking more at the sorts of collaboration side instead of the competition side. So they might be doing really well, but how can, how can I help them? How can they help me? How can we work together? Try not try not to be competitive all the time.
[00:25:50] Andrea: I think that's a really good point is, is instead of looking at them as competition, which can often create a lot of that Almost like defensiveness, , like where our defenses are up.
It's it's to kind of take that, take that wall down and say, Hey, how are they like me? Or how can I, , what is it that I like about what they're doing and how can I do that? And how can I even open a dialogue with them? Because it could be a lot of times these are colleagues that we can talk to or at least find out kind of what's going on behind the scenes.
[00:26:28] Sarah: . And you probably find that they've got the same feelings about you as well, that they, they can see that you are doing because you're putting out the great stuff on social. We do. They're probably seeing how well you are doing and, and possibly comparing themselves negatively. It's it's very easy to put people on pedestal.
But having those conversations can really make you understand that everybody faces challenges in business. Especially when you've got a chronic illness and. Even if you haven't got a chronic illness, people find business hard. It's, it's not an easy, an easy thing to do. So just have to actually, you've got a business and it's going well, or even just going that that's a really good thing and should be proud of that.
[00:27:03] Andrea: What about, so in the very beginning of business, I know, , I'm sure some people start off and they do really, really well. That's not the typical business. Typically when you start off, it's going to be hard. You're not going to pay yourself for possibly even a couple of years. , like for just being honest about what it's like, especially if you're operating a solo business it can be a little bit slower than expected.
, you feel like you have to keep going, or maybe you have to do more and more and more to get that ball rolling. So what are some of the tools to use. When maybe business isn't going as well. And, but you still want to stay in it.
[00:27:43] Sarah: It's really important to remember why you are in business. So what it, I think business is a real roller coaster. You have ups and downs that even if it's going really well, one day you can have a real high and the next day you can maybe get a comment or you just feel something's not working as you would expect it to work, and it can feel really low.
And it, you can feel like stepping away or start that doubt can start creeping in. And I think it's just really important to remember why you're doing your business both for your clients, why you want to do your business for them. What, what, what you're helping them with and also for yourself, what is it about starting a business?
That that's driving you. Is it about getting the balance with your health? Is it about bringing in the income? What is it that you want to achieve? And if you can keep reminding yourself of that it can really help you then to, to find the drive to keep going. I think otherwise it's very difficult.
So if you forget that why it's very difficult to keep going and you can often fill your, like, find that self doubt, keeping in even more. So just reminding itself what you're doing and then choosing a couple of tasks to work on that , that you can achieve. So trying to move the business forward in little baby steps.
I think sometimes we, we feel like we have to achieve a lot, but if we can break it down into really small steps, we'll soon be able to get to a point where we can look back and see how far we've come. And then it's really important to do that actually. And I think many of us don't do that is to look back to where was I?
Six months ago, where was I a year ago and really see that progress. And then you can start to see actually, if I've made this progress in the last year and I I've got some moment going on. The progress in the next year is going to be even even greater. So you can start then to see a bit of a pattern and something I do talk about with the clients as well is a lot of us have to-do lists, but it's also really good to, to have I got it ta-dah list ta-dah!, where you actually write down what you have achieved.
Look that, look back at that on like at the end of the day and the end of the week and see how much you've actually achieved. Cause it's so easy to think, to look at things you haven't achieved and it's often easy to overlook what you have achieved.
[00:29:49] Andrea: Yes. Oh my God. I love that. That's a ta-dah list. I'm going to do that.
I love that cause you're right. sometimes because sometimes it, it can feel like our days are just taken up with these little tasks and fires and things that we don't, , you think you're going to work on one thing and then all of a sudden there's this big old fire that you're like, oh my gosh, I have to, I have to.
Pay attention to this and you can lose track of just how much you've done. And so you can, I know a lot of people can can understand this. It's like at the end of the day, you're like, I am so exhausted and I had such a busy day and I can't tell you one thing I did today. And so keeping that list of like what you did shows you like, oh, this is why I'm, this is why I'm so tired.
Like, this is what I've done. And this is actually really great.
[00:30:33] Sarah: Absolutely. And I think like when I was doing my skincare business, the the first thing I did was create a product and what I needed to create was huge and I never thought was going to be possible, but breaking it down into teeny tiny steps and then looking back and seeing what enough, what I'd actually managed to do was hugely rewarding.
And then finally having a finished product was absolutely amazing, but it, it just looks insurmountable at the very beginning. Those baby steps mix. They, they, they feel such so tiny, but they actually. They really do add together to create something immense.
[00:31:06] Andrea: They do, they add up and they add up very quickly.
For sure. Yes. So go back to that a little bit. Tell me how, because you have quite a few diagnoses, one of which is, is chronic fatigue. So how does that affect you when you're running your business, especially when you were starting out your business?
[00:31:25] Sarah: , I think energy levels are definitely a big issue for me.
And one of the other issues I have is the migraines. I think that probably what has the biggest impact, because it can write out a whole day. If I, if I have a migraine, when I wake up, I find it very difficult to shift. And I can literally go a whole day, not being able to do much. But I can still think so.
I don't put any pressure on myself at all when I'm I'm like that. But I do, I do find that like I can still evolve ideas because it gives me that space on the business as well when you're actually working the business, you sometimes get creative spot. And I try to see that as an opportunity to come up those creative spots.
So I'm not going out there to really think about my business, but when I'm resting and relaxing from because of my health, I often get that little spark of creativity that, that can then really push the business forward. So I try to it as an opportunity rather than the negative thing that it can feel like in the moments.
[00:32:16] Andrea: I always like to talk about pivoting, like I think especially having a chronic illness, both having a chronic illness and having a business are two things that are, Changing all the time. And I feel like we need to have that flexibility and be able to just pivot and find something new, or find something different, or find something that you can do.
And I think that's such a great example. It's like you have a migraine and you're just taken out. So it's like, okay, you didn't, you weren't able to get your list or whatever it was that you wanted to do that day. So let's pivot. What can I do? Oh, I know when I'm in this mode, I can start to brainstorm. I can have that creative spark.
I can think of so many different things, which is also really important. So I love that. I think pivoting is, is essential. Like I said, both in our health and in our business.
[00:33:08] Sarah: Absolutely. Yes. And it is, I think often it's very difficult to take that time to rest. But when you have a chronic illness, you're forced to rest.
Yes. Rest is actually really, really important to a business. So maybe that's a plus side.
, no,
[00:33:20] Andrea: I, , I think you're right. It's it? It does force us to rest. , I know that to a certain extent you can push against it and keep going, keep going. But at some point, your body's going to force you to rest.
And so when you realize that resting is not necessarily the death of your business or the death of your week, it actually can still move you forward. It maybe allows you to listen at the onset when your body is telling you to rest instead of fighting against it.
[00:33:48] Sarah: . And that's something, one of my favorite phrases actually is Listen to the, your body's whispers, so you don't have to hear it scream.
Sure. And for me, that means that you're listening to any aches and pains and reacting to those. So if you're sitting at a desk and you're getting aches in your shoulders, then maybe you need to, to do some stretches or if your eyes are starting to really ache, then maybe that's the time to get out from your desk and look outside at the view.
And I think it's really important to listen to your body and react to it. Cause if we go against that, it's going to really start streaming at you at some points.
[00:34:20] Andrea: . I, , and something that I found that I thought was really interesting and I think this is, , like we were talking about in the very beginning.
It, the many levels that our health and our businesses are intertwined. And one of the things I started realizing with listening to my body was when my body was not only telling me like, Hey, this chair sucks or you need lbar support or, or like get some glass, right? Like, yes, that happens. But it was also telling me when I was on the wrong track, because it's not like, , I would love to say business is about, and , this, you can talk about this way more business is not, I have this passion and I love it.
And then one day I started making millions and it was amazing. Like that is not what it it is. And there's a lot of different twists and turns and choices decisions. And when I started feeling my body telling me. , at first it was kind of after the fact of like, oh, Nope, that was not the right path.
You're going down the wrong hall. Like stop back it up. And then I started feeling when I was having a decision and I was weighing my options. I could also feel my body kind of reacting and kind of telling me like, what feels better. It was really, it was really kind of a fascinating thing that I noticed.
[00:35:45] Sarah: . I think you're absolutely right. It's getting in tune with your body's reactions is, is amazing. And I, I think it's true, actually, your body does tell you the answers a lot of the time and it's listening to your body is, is really key.
[00:35:58] Andrea: So how what's, what's a good way, because this is not something I didn't go in knowing that this was going to happen.
I just kind of started to fall into it and realize it. So what are some of the ways that people can intentionally start falling, listening to their body and knowing when their body is telling them about things like decisions and.
[00:36:19] Sarah: I think it starts with listening to your body when it's talking to you about health.
So when, when you are getting those aches, reacting to it straight away, and I think you're then getting that, that mind body connection is getting stronger. And then I think it then grows from there where you can actually start your body will start telling you about things like decisions. But I think you have to have that, that link there before.
So working on that by listening to, to those aches and those pains and reacting to it, your body will start to understand that it, it has got that connection to your brain. And I think that that's how it sort of, it, it works from there.
[00:36:53] Andrea: And I feel like that's one of our, I don't know, one of our potential superpowers as people living with a chronic illness is that I feel like our bodies they talk a lot too.
[00:37:06] Sarah: . I love that description of a superpower.
[00:37:09] Andrea: . . , heck , we have, we, I think we have access to a lot of superpowers that so maybe other people don't but one of 'em is that we, and, , you can choose not to listen for sure. But if you are choosing to listen, our body is pretty loud and clear.
[00:37:26] Sarah: Very,
very
much so. Yes. And I think in society generally, we're, we're not taught that we're not taught to listen to our body. We're taught to actually ignore it because we are encouraged to go into work when we're not feeling well and, and just put it behind us. And it's only when you get sick that you really sick, that you do start listening to your body.
And I think as you say that, that then becomes. So important to, to our future as.
[00:37:48] Andrea: . That's one of the things that I thought was fascinating about the pandemic it's that, and I'm always, and I'm, , I'm sure you are too, and I'm sure listeners are too. I'm always very aware when people come to either come to work or come to social events and like, hi, how are you?
And give you a hug. And I'm great. I've just had this cold and I just can't get rid. And I'm like, why did you just walk in and hug me? It always blew my mind that people would go to work when they had the flu. And they're like, oh, I'll just take the flu and I'll be better. And then all of a sudden, the pandemic hit and it was like this, this hard, no of you cannot be around people when you're sick . And it's really interesting. I think it's fascinating watching people finally realizing like, damn, I have to listen to this and actually stay home and go and get myself well.
And it's like watching it really just like cramp people's style because they haven't listed. . It's been fascinating.
[00:38:50] Sarah: absolutely. Yes. . It's got to be a good thing. Really hasn't it? Because otherwise people are making themselves ill by, by working when they're not well and also making other people ill mm-hmm by coming in with those gems.
[00:39:02] Andrea: . So think, and somehow, , this, this new virus made it so loud and clear that that was happening and it, and it's been happening with the flu and with other SARS, , it's been happening forever, but finally something happened as big, , big enough to really show everybody like, oh, it's actually not a good thing to do this.
[00:39:23] Sarah: and , I, I think, I think it was expected though. I think a lot of organizations expected you to go into work when you worked well. So it, it became the norm. So it's nice. It's now being questioned.
[00:39:34] Andrea: , I know. I agree. . It really, it was almost like you were like you were a better employee. If you came in, even though you were still sick, it was like this martyr dome that would happen.
Absolutely so weird. So anyway, I just thought that was kind of a fascinating thing. One thing though. So this is something that we were talking about before the podcast, but I thought it was so cool. I was like, put a pin in that. Cause I want to talk about it is the idea of just how many people with a chronic illness have their own business.
Talk to me about that a little bit.
[00:40:04] Sarah: Yes. . So, there's a much larger proportion of people of business owners who have chronic illness than those who don't. And the reason for that is because people with chronic illness, they need to have that flexibility that business ownership gives you. So when you are working in a, in an organization, you are expected to work set hours in a. In a set location, wearing a set type of uniform or clothes, generally, if you want to be smart.
Whereas when you have a chronic illness, you, you often need that flexibility of what time you're going to work. So some people find the warning's very difficult. Some people find the it's difficult and you have that flexibility. You can find the right time for you. You can also choose where to work. So if you are really struggling to sit at a desk, you can still work lying down that you can use voice notes and to write posts or blogs.
You there's various different ways. You can make it work for you and you can also wear whatever you want. So, for example I could sometimes find it very uncomfortable on my abdomen. So have being able to wear, lose clothes, which I probably couldn't get away with in the corporate organization. It works really well for me.
So flexibility as a business owner is, is amazing. And I think that's why there's a lot more people with chronic illnesses who have their own business. And I think the other good thing about having your own business when you've got chronic illness, is it gives you hope. It gives you that that hope that you might have lost.
If you have lost your career you can see something that you're working towards in the future and that can really be really beneficial for your health as well.
[00:41:33] Andrea: So you covered it a little bit when you talked about the beginning of your journey into owning your own business, but what can people do say people are out there and they're thinking I am done with a nine to five.
I can't do it either. , it's on, I don't know how many levels it can be, that it's not working for them. And they're thinking about going into business, but that's, as far as they get, they have no idea. They're like, look, I can't crochet or do whatever. I don't necessarily want to go back and learn a whole new skillset.
I have no idea what to do. And maybe even part of like you spoke about before, part of that ambition, Is not necessarily there so much anywhere. Sometimes we can get really down. So . What would you tell people who are in that situation?
[00:42:24] Sarah: I think it's about taking a step back and looking at what you love doing.
Because if you're going to run a business, you need to do something that you really enjoy doing. You don't want to spend. It's a lot of at work with a business and you want to be doing, you don't want to be spending time doing something that you don't actually enjoy. So looking back at what you like doing and what you are good at as well.
Because again, it is going to make life a lot easier if you are good at it and then really brainstorming it. There are people creating courses on all sorts of things that they love doing and they might not, you might be really good at something and not realize it's actually a market for it. But I work with lots of business owners and different types of jobs and businesses that people run is unbelievable.
Lots of things you wouldn't even imagine can be a business are businesses and they're doing very well. So it's really about trying to, to look at what you love doing. Cause I think it has, it has to come from within you and then seeing whether there's an interest in that either through actually delivering what you, what you love doing or whether teaching it is a way forwards.
And it's worth listening to lots of podcasts. There's lots of business podcasts out there and really trying to understand what other people are doing and, and having conversations with people trying to really see what there is out there. Cause I think often we, we, we have set ideas about what sort of business you can have, but it wasn't until I really started delving into the business world that I realized how huge business is, what different things there are.
So it's, it's quite, quite interesting. Really.
[00:43:52] Andrea: . It's, it's having that confidence that what you, what you do well is something that somebody else wants to learn about. And do as well.
[00:43:59] Sarah: Absolutely. Yes. . And if you were interested in it, it's very likely that other people are interested in it as well.
[00:44:06] Andrea: . There's , none of us are unique
[00:44:09] Sarah: . And you can look at some, some like the course providers, like Udemy or things like that and see the whole range of courses there are and how many people have bought them. And, and that's really fascinating as well.
[00:44:19] Andrea: I think it's, it's interesting because sometimes like, for me, I know that I, I had an idea, I kind of fell into my business like you did.
And then I would start to listen to other people, other, , other podcasts and then I, it was, it turned into like, Like information overwhelm. And then I would start to feel kind of like a, like a pinball , where it's like one person says do it this way. And one person says do it that way.
And one person says you can't do it that way. That'll never make money. You have to go over here. So it, I think it's a delicate balance and I'd love to know how you, how you do it and how you advise people to make that balance between getting information and something that's going to help you versus having so many other ideas and voices in your head that it's almost like you get overwhelmed and kind of freeze up and don't even know what to do.
[00:45:18] Sarah: So, so easy to get overwhelmed, especially when you do jp into that business world and start joining groups and understanding what people are doing. I think one of the key things to do is understand your health and how that's going to impact on your business. So, I have pots, so standing up. For a long amount of time, isn't going to work for me.
So I know that I can't run a business with how, where I have to stand up. So it's understanding what works well with your health and trying to come up with a strategy that works for that. And getting enough information from risk reading and listening to others, but keeping in mind what your end goal is at all time.
So I think it's really useful to think about what you go back to the very beginning again, step away. What do you want to achieve? What sort of lifestyle do you want to achieve? Because it's so easy to get caught up in the business and people, when they're giving you business advice will be very much about how to make your business success, but you might not want that huge success.
You might not want to be making millions. You might just want to have that lovely balance where you can work three days a week and certain hours. And. That you have enough money to keep you going, but you have no pressure. So it's trying to understand what you want and then making your business fit for you.
And that often means ignoring what other people are saying because their advice isn't inappropriate for, for what you want. I think in, in the people with chronic illness, the, the dream, the success isn't measured in, in dollars or pounds, it's measured in, in the lifestyle and your wellbeing.
[00:46:50] Andrea: Mm, I love that.
That's so true is, and that's one thing that I know when I first started out, I had to get over because I came from a world where success very much meant money. like literally I was working in, in finance before I, I moved over and , it was all about your. How much money you're making and how much money you're making your clients and what your, what your degrees were, , was very much steeped in academia as well.
So it was just, it was all about that. And, and finally sitting in the space where you can define success as how you're feeling on a daily basis and how truly happy you are. And I think part of that comes from, , we touched on this, your identity and kind of looking at your identity a little differently and not having that.
So wrapped up in your business, which is maybe your money and your degrees and all that kind of stuff. It's, it's decoupling all of that and realizing true success is being able to do something that makes you happy. Something that helps you look after your body and feel good on a daily basis.
[00:48:02] Sarah: .
And again, I think chronic illness has given me that opportunity to really think about what's important to you because you haven't got the energy to give to everything or, and everyone as well. So it's really about understanding what you want to do on a day to day basis, who you want to be spending your time with.
What's what you're going to be putting your energies into. And then if you can make your business fit around that, then that's, what's going to make you truly happy and successful.
[00:48:26] Andrea: I think that's the absolute, the absolute measure of success is if you can make your business fit around your lifestyle, I think that's , to me, that's like the golden egg right there.
Absolutely. Absolutely. so talk a little bit, since you are in your own business and, , living with chronic illness, what are some of your, just go to tools that you use on a daily basis to help you keep your health in check, keep your business going.
[00:48:59] Sarah: . So, I, I have quite a few different schools.
I think the main thing is to listen to my body. And then I think the other thing that I I'm, it's really important to me is make sure that my strategy fits in with my health. So with my skincare business, I started running parties
,
showing children how to make bath bombs and lip balms, which I love doing and are very kids love doing it as well.
They love it. It's, it's a really like, feel good business, but I know that I can't grow that with my health. I'm very limited to how many parties I can run. And so I've changed my business model completely to a franchise model where I'm going to be and enabling other people to run the business on my behalf in different parts of the UK.
And that's going to mean that I can still have the passion. For my business, which I love doing, but without actually having to deliver it myself. So for me, that's a really good business model and I think it's really important to look at your business and see if there's a different way of running it. So if you're working one to one and you'll find that quite tiring, is there a way to be able to deliver that to many people at once, rather than spending just like all intense time with one person?
,
So it's really about understanding the business model to start with and making sure you've got the right one for your, for your health. And then looking at what tasks are really important and which ones aren't. If you read social media or listen to certain podcasts or books and things, you're very much pushed to, to do things a certain way, you should be doing this.
You should be posting X number of times a day on these different social media platforms. You should.
,
Writing this number of blogs per week, you should be sending this nber of new letters. And none of that is important. You need to do business your way. And as long as you, you are clear that's with yourself, almost that you're going to be doing this.
Like I'm going to be posting once a week. I'm going to write a blog once a month and you just keep that going. That's absolutely fine. You don't have to do everything the way that you are told to do. So it's about making sure your business fits around your needs and your requirements and, and that you don't feel bullied into doing it a certain way, just because people tell you that's the way you should do it.
And then my other tip would be around making sure you're working on tasks of getting you to your goal. Because it's so often easy to get distracted by other jobs, other tasks, and often they might not. Leading you to your goal. So they, they can be a bit of a distraction. So try and get away from those.
So it's worth taking some time every month just to look at what you're doing and making sure that those tasks are worthwhile doing. And often you can find, actually I didn't really need to do that. That was, I spent a day doing that and it really wasn't necessary. It didn't take me any close to my goal.
So maybe next month I'll make sure I don't do that. So just really understanding what what's going to help you and trying to really slimline your business so that you are not overexerting yourself.
[00:51:51] Andrea: I love that. It's like the combination of having, like, understanding your, your strategy and kind of the bigger picture of what you want to do with your business and really staying on point with those checks and balances, but also knowing when to break the rules, knowing when to go off on your own, knowing when to ignore advice, knowing when to, to rebel against all of that stuff.
[00:52:14] Sarah: . And again, that's the beauty of chronic illness. It's that it gives you the right to do that. You don't have to do business the same way as everybody else. You can do it your way.
[00:52:22] Andrea: Ugh. I love it. I love it. so what are some of the tools that you personally do you have things that you personally do every single day, as far as, how do you check in with your body?
Or how do you make sure you bring joy to your life? Are there things that you do personally?
[00:52:36] Sarah: , so I I have like a list of things that I, that bring me joy. So that's, I find if I've written it down, if I'm having a particularly bad day, I can't think about. What makes me happy. I, I kind of lose that.
So having it written down means that I can actually go and pick something to do so it could be listening to a particular playlist or eating a particular food or, or talking to a friend on a phone. But I find often if my health is particularly bad, I, I find it very difficult to break out of that. So having it a list written down really can help me.
So I've, I've got my, my list of, of things that will perk me up and and give me the energy. And I make sure that I do incorporate those into my, my, to do list as well. In terms of checking in myself, I, I do sort of keep an eye on, on my aches and pains and react to those very quickly. I get a lot of shoulder and neck pain.
So if I can feel that that start seem to build attention, I know that I need to start working my breathing. So I do a lot of. Sort of breathing where I breathe in just a small amount and then hold it and then breathe that for a long amount, because I know that will really calm down my nervous system.
Mm-hmm and with pots, the nervous system is, is out of whack. So I do whatever I can to bring my nervous system down. And I also know that if I get stressed, then I need to complete that stress cycle. So I had a, a, a medical call the other day and I could feel afterwards I was very, very hyper. And I knew that if I didn't do something with that energy, then it was going to really affect my health going forward.
Cause I hadn't complete that stress cycle. So I just took myself out for a nice walk and that, that just really helped me to calm, calm that stress cycle down and calm down my nervous system.
[00:54:15] Andrea: Okay. That's really interesting. I've never heard it put that way before complete the stress cycle. Talk a little bit about what that is.
[00:54:21] Sarah: . So if you're feeling stressed the stress events can complete, but the stress within your body is still going on. So you need to complete that stress cycle. So there's different ways you can do it. You can do it by laughing by crying, by doing exercise. So a it's recommended that to go for a run or something like that.
Complete the stress cycle and it's finding what works for you. I, I find that going for a walk is enough to, to, to complete the stress cycle. Having a good cry can definitely. I know there's a few other things. I can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment, but there's a few other things that can really help complete their stress cycle.
And it's just really important because the stress remains in your body even after the stressor has gone. So, I say you might have had a difficult phone call and they put the phone down and it's, it's all been sorted out. There's no worries. But you still got that stress hidden inside your body. And if you don't do something about it, it's going to build up and build up and have an impact on your body.
[00:55:14] Andrea: So it's, it's like keeping that energy moving and letting it move through your body instead of putting a lid on it because you're like, oh it's over.
[00:55:24] Sarah: , , definitely. . I found that when I I moved house a couple of years ago and even though the move was completed and everything had happened nicely and I was really happy for a good week afterwards, I was still stressed.
And I. Work it out. And then I realized that I hadn't managed to get outta that stress cycle. So, once I'd worked out how to get rid of that stress, I was unable to, to feel good about my new house.
[00:55:48] Andrea: That is unbelievable. I've never thought about it that way. And so now of course, I'm like, oh my God, so many things just clicked and like made sense to me because you're right.
We tend to think, I think moving is a really good example. It's over, right? Like we're in the house, the move is done. I should be, I should be happy that it's over. Like, we look at it in terms of the actual event that happened and the event has an end and you're thinking, okay, I should feel good. I should be feeling accomplished.
But it's like this energy that we've been running on, I think, , probably for at least a couple months, if it's something as big as a move is still happening. And so instead of looking at the event, being over, because the actual circumstances over looking about the event being over once our energy has resolved itself, I think is such a different and really helpful way of looking at it.
[00:56:43] Sarah: Absolutely. It's, it's really key to, to understand the impact that that stress is having on your body and trying to, to work away, work it out of your system. Cause otherwise it is really going to weigh down on your, on your body and your nervous system.
[00:56:54] Andrea: To me, stress is a very neutral term, so it doesn't necessarily have to be something negative.
It could be something very positive. I know for me, if something big is happening, it's like a project or it's maybe I'm applying for, ,, something and, and I'll get the position or the, the contract, I guess I should say, I don't really get positions anymore, but I'll get the contract, . and it's like, I almost feel like I have to get up. And sometimes I do this. I like physically just like shake my body. I feel like I just have to shake it off even though it's so good. , I have so much like d going on that I have to shake my body off.
[00:57:27] Sarah: So it's perfect. You're doing it automatically.
You're creating, you're completing that stress cycle by shaking because it, it is creating a physical release. So you haven't realized it, but you are actually doing that, that completion really well.
[00:57:39] Andrea: That's interesting. I've noticed it with like, quote unquote good things. But when you're looking at like a negative stressor, I think that's also because we're so anxious for like a negative stressor to be done that the second, the actual event is done, we think, okay.
But we don't want to prolong it by letting it release. And so I, I think it's interesting to think like, no, it's not, it's done when our energy is done with it. Not when the actual event outside of our body is done.
[00:58:07] Sarah: . Very much so.
[00:58:08] Andrea: Oh my God. I think that's GE I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh. So I know I'm going to have things in the show notes but tell people how they can connect with you.
[00:58:21] Sarah: So I have a free Facebook group called entrepreneurs against the odds. So you are very welcome to come and join us. It's just a really lovely, friendly place for business owners with chronic illnesses just to have support and I, I hand out tips and advice. So it's just a really lovely, friendly place.
And I also have a website which is called Excel against the odd stock code UK. And I have a a free webinar on there about running businesses, a chronic illness that you're welcome to, to download as well.
[00:58:48] Andrea: Fantastic. Well, Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you for like sticking with me through crazy technical issues.
and oh, you're welcome. and helping so many people because I think you're right. , there's so many people that have a chronic illness that are starting their business. So I think you've, you've given so many things for people to think about and things that can help people who are, , in. In the owning your own business struggle currently.
[00:59:14] Sarah: So thank you so much for inviting me as well. I really enjoy talking to you.
What a great conversation with Sarah. I knew that a lot of business owners had chronic illness, but I didn't realize how prevalent it was, , kind of makes sense. As a business owner myself. I know that we have a lot of people in our ears trying to tell us what to do, what systems to use. The list goes on. It's so nice to know that we have someone like Sarah in our corner to remind us.
That the most important part of our businesses. Is our health. My favorite thing that Sarah said. Was about not listening to outside opinions on how we should run our business. I think that is Sage business advice. And really life advice. Right. I don't know about you, but I can't say that I've always followed that advice. Sometimes I fall into that. Everyone does it this way, kind of trap.
But just about every time I do, I have to backtrack because I'm not listening to myself. And things generally don't work out when I'm not listening to myself. So if you have a business. Or just in your life. Where can you see that you're following someone else's advice and ignoring your own. Maybe it's in having a certain amount of production or deadlines in your schedule that don't feel like they're really serving you.
Or maybe it's in something new that you're trying, and maybe you're ignoring that gut feeling, telling you that like, Hey, this isn't really working. Sometimes I catch it. When I find myself trying a little too hard to convince myself that I like something. Take a second and do a little mini I always find those helpful to free up mental and physical energy.
And next week, we have a really interesting conversation with Elizabeth Guthrie. She's living with PTSD. And debilitating long COVID symptoms. And she's talking about traa. But I promise it's not a heavy conversation. , me by now. I loved diving a little bit into what traa is and finding out that it wasn't everything that I thought it was. So if you've ever wondered about traa in your life, if wondered if it contributed to your chronic illness or wondered if you need to do something about it, which hint, you may not have to.
This is a great episode with somebody who breaks it all down for us. So check out the podcast next week and follow the podcast. So you don't miss an episode. And if there's somebody you want to hear on live your life, not your diagnosis or a topic that you want to know more about. Let me know. I love feedback.
Email me at hello at Andrea Hanson. coaching.com. That's andreahansoncoaching until next time, If you like the show, don't be shy. Please give us a five-star rating and review. Follow us on apple podcast, Amazon music or wherever you're listening right now. To see complete show notes and resources mentioned in this episode
visit AndreaHansonCoaching.com. Thank you for joining me And until next time take care